The Rectory

Niki

Aug 26, 08 - 8:31 AM

OCTOBER 11TH

Plan on joining the Lolita Freedom Fighters Team on SATURDAY OCTOBER 11, 2008 in front of the Miami Seaquarium @ 12 noon until 1:30pm. Make signs and shirts! Get all of your friends, family and co-workers to come with you! This HAS to be HUGE to make an impact. We're going to get all of the media outlets in Miami involved, and start a revolution for Lolita's Freedom.

Visit www.orcanetwork.org for updates and more news about Lolita and her current situation. For specific protest info, talk to Candace at: http://www.myspace.com/lolitawhale

PLEASE: Spread the word - post this on facebook, myspace, blogs of any kind, youtube,

Thank you.

Anon

Aug 26th, 2008 - 4:58 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Do you know how many of these they have a year?

It really doesn't do much, except get the picketers sunburned.

Russ Rector

Aug 26th, 2008 - 5:04 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

and photographed

Orca

Aug 26th, 2008 - 8:16 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

They're wasting their time, in my opinion. Every one of these little protests are always "one big step towards Lolita's freedom".

She's not going anywhere.

???

Aug 26th, 2008 - 11:15 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

They might as well try. Doing nothing isn't help her.

christian anthony perez

Aug 27th, 2008 - 5:32 AM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

aaaahhhhh!!!!!!ima be there ^_^
i cant wait!
Email: krazyorca@yahoo.com

Website: http://www.myspace.com/christian461

Russ Rector

Aug 27th, 2008 - 7:34 AM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

there is no helping her

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 27th, 2008 - 12:17 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Come on! I know that its seems pointless, but if you really love her, don't give up hope!
I think that public speaking would be the best way to free her. If more people knew what a craphole the seaquarium was, they wouldn't go there and the place would lose money.

Russ Rector

Aug 27th, 2008 - 12:51 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

face it lolita is going no where hertz is so pi**ed of at the free lolita people he wont even talk.

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 27th, 2008 - 1:44 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Yeah. Obviously Hertz wont listen to the protestors for many reasons. But maybe people on their way to the seaquarium will listen.
Think about it, would you want to go to any place full of protestors? Its kind of a bad omen.....

Russ Rector

Aug 27th, 2008 - 2:08 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

hasnt stop them in the past! its a waste and gives hertz a paltform! useles!!!!!!!

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 27th, 2008 - 2:35 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

And I suppose you think sitting around talking about her is going to do anything.
From what I understand, you love Lolita and you wish to see her freed. How do you propose on doing that?

Russ Rector

Aug 27th, 2008 - 2:43 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

not sitting, but freeing lolita is not realistic. msq must go down and it will but lolita is going no where you better face that!

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 27th, 2008 - 3:13 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Wait, if the msq shuts down, doesnt Lolita have to go somwhere.

Russ Rector

Aug 27th, 2008 - 3:20 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

it will be after she dies!

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 27th, 2008 - 3:53 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Since your totally pesimistic on the matter, may I ask why you started this forum?

Russ Rector

Aug 27th, 2008 - 4:16 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

just facing facts and things change, yes she had a window several years ago. thats gone closed forever! thats a fact!

Russ Rector

Aug 27th, 2008 - 4:19 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

go to the offical lolita site kinds says it all!

Anon

Aug 27th, 2008 - 5:17 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

She can't be freed. She isn't a candidate for it.

She is too old, doesn't have the immune system for those waters, and is too dependent on her trainers.

Why can't you guys understand this?

You cannot just dump her back into the ocean. This is not Free willy, and it will not have a happy ending.
Love her where she is. Because she isn't going anywhere.

I don't say this because I want her to be confined to a small tank the rest of her life, I say this because those are the facts. Plain and simple.

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 27th, 2008 - 5:38 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

If people just accepted the fact that America was a lowly colony, would we have gained independence and moved on to become the most powerful ****** in the world?
If women and african americans just accepted the fact that they would always be inferior, would they have fought long, hard battles to gain their rights?
If we just accepted the fact that no on cares about nature, would we have become the first country to establish a national park system, and become leaders in world-wide conservation?
This is America. One of our most treasured mottos is "the price of freedom is eternal vigilence", and here in America, anything is possible, and much easier to achive than it would be in in other times and places.
That being said, couldn't you at least DREAM of Lolita being sent to a bigger tank? Don't say yes, but it isn't going to happen, because dreams are the start of new beginnings.
Think about what I said VERY carefully before posting a response.

Russ Rector

Aug 27th, 2008 - 6:12 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

what you fail to understand is 15 years of mistakes that have created such bad feelings on hertz part he wont even discuss it...nothing changes that...n o t h i n g

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 27th, 2008 - 6:22 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

You know that video tape you took for Slave to Entertainment? The one under the whale stadium? Maybe you could show it to s saftey regulation department or something like that.
Its not that people don't care, its just that they don't know, and letting people know will stop people from going to the Seaprison, or doing something to shut it down.
Even if we can't save Lolita, we can improve the lives of all the other miserable residents.
Besides, many marine parks no where near as crappy as the seaprison have been closed. If they can be shut down with enough protestors and safety violations, so can the msq.

Anon

Aug 27th, 2008 - 6:38 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

^You fail to see a lot of what is going on here.

The "other residents" do not lead miserable lives.
MSQ has some of the oldest captive marine mammals in the world. They still perform and are still healthy.
Obviously, they are doing something right. The animals wouldn't be alive otherwise.
They also have animals from other parks, including sea world.
These places would not send animals there if they were taken care of poorly.

Animals don't live very long if they are completely depressed and not taken care of.

People know about Tokis situation. It isn't that she doesn't have enough publicity, its just a fact that Hertz will not sell her. Nor is she able to go back to the ocean. It just isn't plausible. If she died during transport, or during training, what would you say then?
She is used to where she is. I'm not willing to upset the balance in her life and cause her huge amounts of unwanted stress, possibly killing her, because people want a Free Willy story.

You do not work with these animals. You aren't in a position to know what they do or do not need. Yes it is sad that she will never leave that tank. No, she never should have been captured in the first place. But it happened. And all the facts point to leaving her where she is.

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 28th, 2008 - 3:30 AM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Anon, do you work for the miami seaquarium?
Alright, the Flipper dolphins are in a spacious pool in top condition. But tne sea lions and top deck dolphins are in tiny pools in shabby conditions; peeling paint, shoddy wiring, etc.
And as for Lolitas "dolphin friends", the would be cramped in the puddle even without Lolita.
There has to be something above that you agree with.

Niki

Aug 28th, 2008 - 12:17 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

If Lolita died in transport (which is highly unlikely, consider NO orca/dolphin has died in transport before) we could at least say WE TRIED. We didn't let her die at Seaquarium. SHe was that much closer to freedom.

Captive orcas and dolphins are transported regularly in the captivity industry - from US park to US park or from US park to park abroad (and vice versa). These animals are often separated from their families and trainers & tanks they have become "accustomed" to. Does it kill them? No. Does it harm them mentally? Probably. But moving Lolita is a different scenario. While she might 'miss' her trainers or dolphin tank mates (unlikely...), she would be experiencing so much more - she could see her family and others of her species, she could dive and swim as far and as fast/slow as she wanted.

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 28th, 2008 - 1:58 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Niki makes good point.
And Russ, you're totally confusing me.
How can someone be supportive of a cause(Lolita's freedom) but keep accepting facts(like that she will never move)? To me that is not believing.

Russ Rector

Aug 28th, 2008 - 2:29 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

I have seen so much free lolita crap over the years and none of it made a doodle...how is this any different? msq is the target not lolita and guys there many other animals there besides lolita!

the major mistakes of the past stand in your way and hertz isnt going to deal, he isnt even going to talk about it!

and if you want some of my inside info call me. 954 830 3511

Orca

Aug 28th, 2008 - 2:31 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Just because your visions of a "happy" future for Lolita may seem all fine and dandy to you, doesn't mean it will be for her.

She can wander around Puget Sound's polluted waters, hungry, looking for the affection of humans she has known for nearly all of her life, and her carcass can randomly wash up on a beach one day, but you will still claim it was a better life for her.

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 28th, 2008 - 2:57 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Orca, I never said that my vision for a happy future included freedom. That would be nice, but I think she would be in heaven in Seaworld, with other orcas to play with and plenty of room of to swim around in.
Anything wrong with that?

Russ Rector

Aug 28th, 2008 - 3:19 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

only one thing wrong, hertz will have none of it! I mean NONE!!!!!!!

Anon

Aug 28th, 2008 - 5:56 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

No I do not work at MSQ. Though I have been there many many times and have seen Toki both during, between, and after shows.

Yes, I will agree with you that the sea lion and top deck tanks could be improved. However, that does not mean the animals are in poor condition.

As far as moving Toki to sea world, she is the dominant animal in her pool. You cannot just upset her structure and the structure of sea worlds pods so easily.
It would take huge amounts of time to introduce the animals to one another and Toki may even become the lowest member where other animals would pick on her terribly.
Going from the top down to the bottom would be VERY stressful to her at her age.

In response to "if she died in transport, at least we tried," do you think that would be how she saw it?
Laying there, depressed and stressed to the point of death in a sling, she would have no idea what was happening to her. It doesn't matter your intentions, she would still have no idea what was going on.

I just cant believe the amount of people wiling to gamble her life in order to satisfy YOUR own personal ethics. Its selfish.

Either way, the arguing is useless, because as Russ already knows, she isn't going anywhere.

Orca

Aug 28th, 2008 - 6:58 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

POW, I was referring to Niki's post in general.
And Anon, I totally agree. It's nice to think of her living in a large enviornment or even the ocean, but such thoughts may not be in her best interest no matter what the intentions are. Toki's tank may be small, but she's healthy, she's active, and she gets plenty of exercise, love, and emotional nurishment from her trainers.
As said so many times by people on this forum: She's been "dying" for years now. If the Seaquarium wasn't taking proper care of her, she would have died years ago.

Hey Anon, I have a question...since she is so picky about the kind of salmon she recieves, does she also tend to be picky around other varieties of fish such as herring, capelin, etc? Or do they just supplement those with vitamins?

Anon

Aug 28th, 2008 - 7:06 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

From what I've seen, she isn't as picky with her herring and capelin. Though they are smaller fish than salmon, and its size that seems to matter to her.

So no, its only the salmon she likes gutted and cut up. The other fish she is fine eating whole.

Though I have been told she is picky about any ice on her fish.
(Sometimes, it will stick to the fish after ice has been put on top of it when stored in the fridges.)
So trainers are extra sure before show times to make sure theres none on her fish.

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 28th, 2008 - 7:25 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

"As far as moving her to SeaWorld, she is the dominant animal in her pool"
Well, obviously. She is the ONLY animal in her pool. The dolphins do not count, because she knows the difference between orcas and dolphins, and being a social creature she needs ORCA company.
And besides, orcas are transported between SeaWorld parks constantly, and they don't seem to mind the upset in social structure.
Lolita is not involved in a social structure. Sending her to SeaWorld would give her that kind of opportunity.
Let me guess, Anon, the Miami Seaquarium was a valued part of your precious childhood?

Anon

Aug 28th, 2008 - 7:35 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

You keep comparing her to Sea world orcas.

You CANNOT do that.

Sea world orcas are transported enough to be trained for it. Toki is not.
Sea world orcas are used to having other orcas around.
Toki is not.
She would have no idea how to react to that situation.

Also, deny all you want, but there is a social structure in her tank. No, the lags are not orcas. But Toki knows them, and there is still an order of dominance involved. Toki being at the head.

As far as MSQ being a part of my "precious childhood," that couldn't be further from the truth. I didn't grow up going to marine parks. I go now on business or sometimes pleasure, as I personally know many of the trainers who work/have worked there.

You think you know me oh so well ;)

ProudOrcaWarrior

Aug 28th, 2008 - 7:47 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

GAAAAGHHHH! THIS IS THE STUPIDEST FORUM EVER! HALF OF YOU PEOPLE DON'T EVEN LOVE HER, AND YOU CLAIM TO KNOW WHATS BEST, AND NOTHING WILL CONVINCE YOU OTHERWISE!!!!!!!!
For once in my life, I wish someone would listen to me. But no one ever does, especially not on this site.
I'm leaving now, and I'm never going to come back again. I don't expect you to care. But the people who join this site don't do anything to help Lolita, all they do is YELL AT EACHOTHER!
And those people who believe shes actually happy in that tank, don't think you've won by scaring me off. I dont swallow the same bull you do, I never will.
And personally, I think you all hate Lolita in that tank, but you just don't want to admit that you were wrong, so you use lies to compensate things. I know your type; you like to compensate lots of things. Like how you like to cut down rainforests and buy gas-wasting SUVs to compensate for your tiny penis.
Anyway, bye.

Anon

Aug 28th, 2008 - 8:32 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Saying we dont love her is whats stupid.

You shouldn't get upset just because I (and others) don't agree with you, and present you with facts.

I would think you'd want to listen and look more into what someone with actual experience in this field has said.

Its called debating. Not everyone is going to see things the way you do.

Also, I've already admitted I'd like to see her in a bigger environment, however, I know it isn't going to happen.

However, you are able to make your own decisions about whether or not to remain on this forum. So, toodles.

Manon

Sep 20th, 2008 - 8:22 AM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

THIS ACTION MIGHT NOT SAVE LOLITA, BUT IT MIGHT WILL SAVE OTHER ORCA'S, DOLPHINS AND ANIMALS IN CAPTIVITY AROUND THE WORLD, AS PEOPLE REALIZE THAT KEEPING AN ANIMAL CONVINED IS NOT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT LOLITA FOR ME ANYMORE, IT'S MORE. PEOPLE MIGHT NOT GO TO SOME ANIMAL PARK ANYMORE NEXT TIME WHEN THEY HEAR OUR YELLS.

SADLY, I CAN'T BE THERE. FLYING OVER TO MIAMI FOR A DAY IS A LITTLE BIT TOO MUCH MONEY TO SPEND FOR ME. I LIVE IN HOLLAND, SO IT WOULD BE TOO MUCH.

Gabe

Sep 20th, 2008 - 12:26 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Please please please attend this event, people!!

We need to teach the public about captivity - yes, because even if it doesnt rescue Lolita, Corky, or any of the others currently imprisoned, it will save future animals from being caught!!

PLEASE GO TO THE PROTEST!
if you cannot go, please just make a shirt to free lolita and wear it on that day!

Neveah

Sep 20th, 2008 - 1:27 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

"We need to teach the public about captivity - yes, because even if it doesnt rescue Lolita, Corky, or any of the others currently imprisoned, it will save future animals from being caught!!"

You can't capture in American waters anymore, if any wild cetaceans are caught it's from foreign waters, and even then our aquariums don't just buy them. They have to be on a breeding loan and I think they have to be in Captivity for a certain amount of time. I think.

Most North American aquariums focus more on breeding so that they don't _have_ to capture anymore.

Anon

Sep 20th, 2008 - 1:46 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

^exactly.

If you're so worried about wild captures, you should focus on other countries as they are the ones who still do it.

niki

Sep 28th, 2008 - 2:54 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

I was just informed by one of the coordinators of the protest that about 50-70 people (so far) will be attending. This is going to be one of the biggest MSQ protests in a long time.

Please go if you can!! Bring a poster! MAKE A T-SHIRT! Rent a killer whale costume to wear!! Try lots of things; make it fun =]

move lolita! do it now!!!!

Oct 11th, 2008 - 5:47 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

so did anyone go today?? wish i could have been there, but being on the other side of the contenant i couldn't. hopfully it was a good turn out!

Russ Rector

Oct 11th, 2008 - 7:42 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

nothing on the news about it, so it couldnt have been that big!

Russ Rector

Oct 13th, 2008 - 9:28 AM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

WELL NIKKI IS LOLITA ANY CLOSER TO FREEDOM....NO....ALL THAT EFFORT COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER SPENT DOING SOMETHING THAT REALLY HURTS MSQ...BY THE WAY MY SOURCES TELL ME MSQ THOUGHT IT WAS A BIG JOKE...THEY ARE STILL LAUGHING IM TOLD!

niki

Oct 14th, 2008 - 3:20 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Thanks for all the support, Russ -_-

What on Earth do you suggest we do if you think this business of protesting every weekend is not enough? More than 50 people attended this last protest. Cars actually turned away and left Seaquarium. People got informed. People WANTED to help her; they asked what else they could do to help Lolita!

I think that alone is a step in the right direction. As you know, these things don't just happen overnight! (I've been working for Lolita for 10 years so I know how stressful this is, too...)

Who knows? What if we just inspired a new, hard-hitting activist for Lolita? [=

msq employee

Oct 15th, 2008 - 9:30 AM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

yea u guys were a joke. i work at msq and we didntstop making fun of u guys. the guests that were in the parkthought u guys were crazy. but i got to give it to ya, the little airplane with the sign was pretty cute. wonder how much that cost. oh by the way, ummmm we still had over 1300 guest that day so yea. to bad it didnt rain sooner on ya on saturday.

Concerned

Oct 15th, 2008 - 10:54 AM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

Meanwhile, seven southern residents are now listed as deceased and/or missing this September. Really, all this time and effort should be spent into saving her wild counterparts. It's so sad seeing them all with peanut head and struggling to feed themselves.

Russ Rector

Oct 15th, 2008 - 11:01 AM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

yo concerned do you see any captive facilty helping them...no...they dont care, they just want stupid people to pay to see there slaves do stupid tricks thats all.

Anon

Oct 17th, 2008 - 1:36 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

You seem to blame captive facilities for pretty much everything Russ.

If an animal dies in captivity, its the facilities fault.
If the animals die in the wild, its captivities fault because they didnt do anything to help.

It really makes no sense.

Russ Rector

Oct 17th, 2008 - 1:42 PM

Re: OCTOBER 11TH

no anon just making a point that most if not all captive facilities dont really do much to save anything... if they do its just for the press! trying to look GREEN!!!!!!!!!

	The Rectory Lolita IS Dying, let's talk about it. Russ Rector
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