Lolita IS Dying, let's talk about it.
Russ Rector
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The Rectory
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| Viewing Page 1 of 1 (Total Posts: 34) |
| Author | Comment |
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ProudOrcaWarrior
Aug 6, 08 - 3:33 PM |
Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
I'm just curius to here the arguements. Personally, I believe that Lolita should be freed, or at least move to Seaworld or something like that. But are there any people out there who want to keep her in that tank? *cough*cough*Bob*Cough* |
Russ Rector
Aug 6th, 2008 - 4:27 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
just hertz and he owns her..his is the only opinion that counts! |
ProudOrcaWarrior
 Aug 6th, 2008 - 5:00 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
Its sucks that only one opinion is holding her back from happiness. Poor Tokitae! |
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Anon
Aug 6th, 2008 - 7:57 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
You can read my arguments on other threads. But basically, I believe she is too old to be put back into the ocean. She is used to being hand fed. She will not eat whole salmon, but likes it to be gutted and cut into portions. Her immune system is NOT up to par with what that area will throw at her in terms of water quality. Yes, we'd all like to see her get a bigger tank. But it won't happen. I do not believe she is a depressed and pining animal. She spends her days with her trainers getting the best of care and if she wasnt, she would have died years ago. |
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ProudOrcaWarrior
Aug 6th, 2008 - 8:26 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
So, Anon? You can still dream can't you? I asked if you truely believed in keeping her there, not if you just though thats the way things were. |
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amberly
Aug 6th, 2008 - 9:40 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
anon is just trying to be realistic. |
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Ollie
Aug 7th, 2008 - 3:10 AM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
the only 1 option for Lolita to have a better life would be to move to Sea World Orlando, or San Diego - where she could live with other orcas,in a bigger environment. |
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amberly
Aug 7th, 2008 - 8:59 AM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
or she could of moved to keiko's old tank in newport, if only they hadn't turned it into a shark tank. |
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ProudOrcaWarrior
Aug 7th, 2008 - 11:10 AM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
So does anyone think that keeping her in the seaquarium tank is the BEST thing for her? |
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amberly
Aug 7th, 2008 - 5:40 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
not no but hell NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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meh
Aug 7th, 2008 - 5:42 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
i don't think moving lolita to seaworld would be a good move since captive female orcas have a tendancy to be aggressive or unaccepting of other females. its a matriarchal thing. i think the best option for lolita is to have her retired and moved into facility like Keiko's tank in Newport, and rehibilitated. While I would love to she her reunited with her pod members, I do think that having her released might be really difficult due to her age and impared immune system. keeping her in this current tank is not acceptable. The only thing in my opinon that'll keep her in captivity for the rest of her life is her age and health concerns. |
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tg
Aug 8th, 2008 - 12:45 AM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
not really seaworld whales are constantley being moved all the time with out any problems towards agression look at wen they brought in bjossa |
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christian anthony perez
Aug 8th, 2008 - 12:24 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
miamiseaquarium is parnoid if lolita is living so many years in her tank why should they build her a new tank! shes living great according to them~! they just dont wanna risk it |
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Anon
Aug 8th, 2008 - 2:08 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
Sea world whales are in a much different situation than Toki. She hasn't been moved since she was very young. She isn't trained to use a sling. MSQ is also in a bit of a difficult situation. It isn't as easy to just "expand her tank." There really isn't much room behind the current stadium TOO expand. You guys are so eager to see her freed that you don't take into consideration her life. Are you REALLY that willing to take a chance on her dying? I know her tank is small, and no she never should have been put in it to begin with. But she's there, she's healthy, and she shows none of the characteristics of a pining, depressed animal. Leave her where she is. We'd love to see her get a bigger tank, but its not going to happen and I for one do not wish to gamble her life in order to satisfy personal ethics. |
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ProudOrcaWarrior
Aug 8th, 2008 - 3:21 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
So, Anon, what would youd do if she was freed? |
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Anon
Aug 8th, 2008 - 4:46 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
If she was freed and if she did survive, of course I would be very happy for her. You seem to think I'm some sort of monster. There are too many "ifs" involved in freeing her and I am not willing to gamble her life. Of course, it is not my decision nor will it ever be. She belongs to Hertz and MSQ and that is where she will stay. |
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ProudOrcaWarrior
Aug 8th, 2008 - 6:24 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
Then you're alright by me, Anon. A complete monster would want her to die in that tank. |
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Another Random Person XD
Aug 11th, 2008 - 12:05 AM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
Aight Im probably gonna get alot of **** off of this post but who cares :P Lolita has lived in her current home for the past 38 years, and im sure we can all agree, shes accustomed to it. People have the bad tendancy to judge an orcas character by their tank size, just because her tank sucks ass badly, doesnt mean she is unhappy. Its people who continously cram their words down the throats of captive animals by claiming their sad, depressed and ill, when in reality, there is no way to tell what the animal is thinking. Many of you say, "Oh shes abused and negleced and forced to perform for her food" eh WRONG.. There is no food deprivation here, she may not get a reward for a negative behavior, but thats a customary trainint method, whenever im working on training my dog, if he does the behavior, such as SIT, then i reward him with love and or a bone, if he doesnt do the behavior, then he doesnt get the bone, but i still feed him daily, same goes for lolita, she is still fed her daily requirements of restuaraunt quailty fish, that and frequent vet checks from skilled veterinarians. The rumor that shes dying has been going on for over 20 years, if it were true, SHE WOULD BE DEAD ALREADY, GOD TAKE A HINT. Besides, arent we all dying anyway? Thus I do not support her release into the wild, her home waters are literally a sewer, and her having been in captivity so long, she probably wouldnt be able to fight off the diseases that would pose a threat to her (take keiko for instance). Besides, shes developed such strong bonds with her trainers and caretakers, im quite sure, as with many more, that she is attached to them by now. And releasing her, and forcing her to avoid the human contact she has grown to love and rely upon, is just as cruel as capturing her in the first place. Besides, shes up there in age, moving any cetacean is a risk, but one Lolitas age could easily kill her. Thus again I support a new tank, but I do not support her release. And if a new tank is out of the question, then she should remain in her current home that she has grown to adapt over the last few decades. |
ProudOrcaWarrior
Aug 11th, 2008 - 6:04 AM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
ARP, there may be a problem with releasing her, but there is NO problem whatsoever with moving her to another tank. SeaWorld orcas are moved to other facilities quite often, and they don't die. So don't give up hope, she can still survive in another tank, and she WILL be much happier. You can tell that she's unhappy because she floats like a log between performances, and happy orcas are usually playful. And even if she is happy, she'll be happier with more orcas. |
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Russ Rector
Aug 11th, 2008 - 7:28 AM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
LOLITA IS A PRISONER OF MONEY AND EGO! |
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Another Random Person XD
Aug 11th, 2008 - 1:00 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
Seaworld orcas may be constantly moved, but their all young, none has ever been moved thats as old as lolita |
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Another Random Person XD
Aug 11th, 2008 - 1:03 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
and for the record. Keeping and caring for an orca in captivity is EXTREMELY expensive for the park. If they were so concerned about money, im quite sure they wouldnt have orcas. |
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ProudOrcaWarrior
Aug 11th, 2008 - 1:39 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
ARP, I'm sure she's more likely to die being in that tank thatn she is to die while being transported. You eat that Seaquarium crap fast, don't you....... |
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Another Random Person XD
Aug 11th, 2008 - 2:01 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
Oh shut up, im not getting any of this from the seaquarium, but through research, forum debating, and tons of other crap. If anything, all of you who want her released are eating your own crap, like i said before, you judge her character by the size of the tank, thats why no one is ******** about seaworlds orcas, except russ DX those are your words, not lolitas, when lolita starts talking and saying "hey , get me the hell out of here" then i would say otherwise, but as far as im concerned, no in fact, as far as i and MANY OTHERS are concerned, the best thing for her, is to keep her at MSQ. |
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Russ Rector
Aug 11th, 2008 - 2:10 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
THAT'S NOT THE BEST THING, THAT IS THE REALITY OF HER SITUATION...MSQ IS STILL A CRAP HOLE! AND WILL CLOSE DOWN SOONER OR LATER!!!!! AND ARP YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE ANY ANIMAL SKILLS OR PERCEPTIONS. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN LOLITA? |
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Another Random Person XD
Aug 11th, 2008 - 2:14 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
russ just because your 500 years older than some people, doesnt mean you have more knowledge. For gods sake, i mean do you believe half of the crap you say anyway? |
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Another Random Person XD
Aug 11th, 2008 - 2:15 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
And yes dont get me wrong i think MSQ is a crap hole, but Lolitas still alive and thriving isnt she? Shes the oldest surviving orca in captivity, that means MSQ caring methods have somehow payed off. |
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ProudOrcaWarrior
Aug 11th, 2008 - 2:15 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
ARP, we CAN tell that she is depressed. She just floats in her tank. If she was happy, she could be swimming around and splahing. And its more than just the tank. Can you at least promise me that you'll never go to the Seaquarium and give them money in anyway? That's all I ask. |
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Russ Rector
Aug 11th, 2008 - 2:28 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
THATS JUST MEANS SHE TOUGH AND ADAPTABLE, EVERY PARK HAS ONE LONG LIVED ANIMAL HERE AND THERE...ITS NOT THE NORM AND LOLITA IS NOT THRIVING SHE IS JUST SURVIVING! HUGO SURE DIDNT THRIVE AT MSQ, DID HE????????? |
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Another Random Person XD
Aug 11th, 2008 - 2:34 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
I live thousands of miles away from any marine park holding orcas, so i guess thats an involuntary promis that i can make, although if i was offered to go there, i may take up the opportunity, but who knows, i might feel guilty as well. And russ, sure she may bob occasionally, but that doesnt mean shes depressed, im not saying thats what its NOT, but it could be numerous other things as well. I went to seaworld Orlando for vacation a few weeks ago, and Takara bobbed for a while, and floated backwards, i didnt judge it to her being depressed, maybe slightly bored, or maybe just ammusing herself. |
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ProudOrcaWarrior
Aug 11th, 2008 - 2:42 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
Well I guess that's good. All we can do is stop giving that place money. |
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Another Random Person XD
Aug 11th, 2008 - 2:52 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
Yea..trust me guys i honestly do feel for lolita, i love her dearly, i love all of the orcas dearly, i just hate to think of risks. |
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Anon
Aug 11th, 2008 - 4:22 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
OrcaWarrior, What the public sees and what Tokis trainers see are two very different things. The public is only allowed to view here for a brief period of time during the day. Believe me when I tell you, she is not depressed. During the times she is off display, she does "swim and splash." She plays with her Lag companions, fast swims, and even breaches. She participates in training sessions and playing with her trainers throughout the day. She also loves to mess with the interns and trainers while they clean her tank. That animals is anything but idle. She will float around at the surface sometimes, known as "logging," but all cetaceans do this. Its how they rest. She eats very well and shows no symptoms of being depressed. Yes some days she will refuse to perform, but every animal will on occasion. They have their bad days just like you or I. |
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Another Random Person XD
Aug 11th, 2008 - 4:41 PM |
Re: Why Lolita shouldn't be freed
and again^^ AMEN XD |
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