Lolita IS Dying, let's talk about it.
Russ Rector
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Russ Rector
Jun 16, 08 - 8:16 PM |
CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=f016e77f-495e-4f8d-80d0-c067caf7b562 |
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Russ Rector
Jun 16th, 2008 - 8:21 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Killer Whale Dies at SeaWorld Last Update: 4:18 pm Print Story | Email Story SeaWorld officials announced Monday that "Halyn", a 2 1/2-year-old female killer whale, died unexpectedly Sunday night. (News 4) A whale at SeaWorld died over the weekend. SeaWorld officials announced Monday that their killer whale ""Halyn" died unexpectedly Sunday night. The 2 1/2-year-old female that was born at SeaWorld San Antonio and was the first hand-raised killer whale in the world. Trainers said they began noticing a change in the 1,900 pound mammal on Wednesday. They were waiting for tests to come back when she died Sunday. Because of their attachment to Halyn, some staff members at the park are having a difficult time. "We spent a long time hand-raising this animal," explained David Force of SeaWorld San Antonio. "She was rejected by her mom, so we assumed the responsibility of feeding her, teaching her how to behave as a killer whale and all those things at a young age. So, it was a lot of time put into this animal from the zoological training staff. SeaWorld officials are now waiting on tests from a post-mortem examination to determine the cause of Halyn's death. |
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Ladybug
Jun 16th, 2008 - 9:00 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Again and again and again. How very sad. :-( |
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sw regular
Jun 16th, 2008 - 9:15 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Christ Russ, show some compassion. If you were the oh-so-knowledgeble marine mammal person you claim to be, you would have realized that captivity is the REASON Halyn lived past a few days. If SeaWorld animal care staff hadn't stepped in the moment she was rejected, Halyn would have died right then. It's heartbreaking that she passed away suddenly when she radiated health and was full of energy, but know what the simple fact of being under human care is not her cause of death. |
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Russ Rector
Jun 16th, 2008 - 10:18 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
YOU CAPTIVITYOPHILES JUST CANT FACE IT. |
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firesong77
Jun 17th, 2008 - 2:23 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Best come back ever |
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StephD
Jun 17th, 2008 - 4:07 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Russ, I hope you post the results. And I would like to point out how much the staff refers to the time they spent taking care of Halyn as opposed to the time they had with her. Perhaps that is their way to cope, however it seems as though they are more focused on the loss of their precious time than the animal itself. had this had been an animal I personally worked with day and night, I think I would be more concerned about losing a friend, and focused on finding a reason so in the future the signs of illness would be more noticeable. Unfortunately, I feel most of the staff in this facilities are not trained enough.I do realize that tests were preformed and they were waiting for results. But it is extremely disturbing that they noticed signs of something being wrong and within a 4 day window the animal died. In order for an animal to pass away that suddenly, there had to be something seriously wrong. And that being the case, there should have been some earlier warning signs. Lots of Pro-captivity posters claim these animals are so greatly taken care of at these facilities, however this story just proves that ( possibly unintentinally) the facilities are lacking somewhere. |
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Grow Up Kids, Learn Something
Jun 17th, 2008 - 5:27 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
StephD, I think the problem is that the article only quotes one or two people commenting on the situation. We don't know the rest of what the staff thinks or feels, nor do we even know the rest of what the quoted individual said. I think overanalyzing "spent time with" phrases is moot, because it amounts to the same thing...a close bond between the trainer and the animal. I have no doubt in my mind that the trainers are devastated by this loss because they loved this orca. In addition, there are a handful of problems that can strike down an animal (people included) within a few days. It could be disease, it could be a congenital physical issue. Fungal infections have a nasty reputation for striking down certain animals without obvious symptoms until it is too late. Sometimes, beings just die. Some of us make it to 100, some of us don't make it past our first day. I think it is unwise at this point (before we know what the cause of death was) to judge the response of the training staff. |
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Olivia
Jun 17th, 2008 - 6:16 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Captivity kills. Yes, she may have died if they didnt helped her. But in nature only the strongest survive. Yes is very sad that she died. But if she was wild you would never know her, maybe she would live longer you never know, somtimes other members in the pack take care of calfs. |
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StephD
Jun 17th, 2008 - 6:45 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
For one Grow Up, had this been a fungal infection, the signs would have appeared much earlier and the lab results would have been completed within 48 hrs. (MAX)Most aggressive diseases (like 94%) would have also shown signs prior to the 4 day window. Had this been congenital, it would have been a known issue basically from birth. Halyn has been under vets care and tested in the past. Though her trainers saw something different on Wednesday, and were waiting for the test results, my knowledge in lab work tells me the results should have been in by Sunday. This indicates, to me that one of 2 things occured. 1) Her Vet was not contacted Wednesday, therefore necessary tests weren't completed until Thursday or even Friday or 2)The lab they use is inadequate or perhaps under paid or do not place enough priority on their tests. I can't wait to see what the results of lab work and post-mortem brings. |
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Russ Rector
Jun 17th, 2008 - 7:56 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
I MUST STILL ARGREE WITH VOLTAIRE: I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it. Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
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Neveah
Jun 17th, 2008 - 3:59 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Steph, I can't believe you implied that Halyn's trainers cared more about losing their 'precious' time then losing her. I hope that this is one of those times when I 'misread' what you have put, because the alternative is more heartless then anything I have seen on this board. "Though her trainers saw something different on Wednesday, and were waiting for the test results, my knowledge in lab work tells me the results should have been in by Sunday." Maybe the lab results came in, but nothing could have been done? Or they started her on medication, but it was too late to have an effect. I've heard that orca's are notorious at hiding illness until it's too late...maybe she did? And Russ, that quote that you are so fond of also applies as much to you as it does to us at times. :) |
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Grow Up Kids, Learn Something
Jun 17th, 2008 - 5:10 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
StephD I am unaware of how SeaWorld's lab work/vet staff works. I don't know if they send out test results in addition to in-house stuff, so that might affect timing issues. Who knows if any congenital defects were missed...or maybe popped up later in her life. We'll have to wait for the necropsy results. |
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slimestone
Jun 18th, 2008 - 5:06 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Look, Russ, and other people who have absolutley no life apart from being *******s and telling other people they fail at life: Captivity isn't always so bad. As a matter of fact, it is sometimes necessary. Sometimes, animals are abandoned, and believe me: IT IS NOT IT AN ANIMAL'S NATURE TO ADOPT. Therefore, if an animal WERE to be abandoned, especially in weaning and just out of weaning times, they have NO CHANCE OF SURVIVAL, unless a HUMAN intervenes and HELPS. A lot of the time, captivity is only short and the animals are taken back to the wild. Others, they're too sick or weak to go back. Plus: HOW DO YOU KNOW AN ANIMAL DOES NOT LIKE ITS CARERS? Have you TALKED to an animal in captivity? Have you ASKED an animal if it hates its carers? NO. Besides, you'd think a KILLER WHALE, more than TEN TIMES the size of a human, would EASILY kill its carer if it wasn't happy. |
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Russ Rector
Jun 18th, 2008 - 8:21 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
I HAVE WORKED WITH CAPTIVE DOLPHINS HAVE YOU? I KNOW, AND THEY ARE NOT HAPPY IN CAPTIVITY...THAT ALL!!!$$$$$ |
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slimestone
Jun 19th, 2008 - 1:40 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
CHRIST, Russ! Bloody hell, what's with the banning? I am NOT a supporter of captivity! Besides, can you give me proof of their not liking their carers? Perhaps a tape recording of an interview witha dolphin, maybe? Also, what does "captivityophile" even MEAN? *cough*stupidestwordever*cough* |
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Olivia
Jun 19th, 2008 - 5:33 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
slimstone it has happend that animals adopt others cals/puppy etc. Saw a movie about elephants, was a lonly elphants calf just 1 month old that was abandoned, then another group of elephants adopt that one. Sometimes it happens. All dont do that, one death is food for another you cant interfear with that! Even if its terrible! If they liked they trainers why do more human die beacuse of orca attack in captivity instead of the wild? |
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StephD
Jun 19th, 2008 - 8:35 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Neveah, I simply pointed out how every single quote from the training staff made a reference to the time they devoted to raising her.....Google it, you will see....I was not trying to say they didn't care, I realize they do, but when asked to comment, they should have stated how much they will miss her as opposed to how much time was lost. Perhaps, those statements were lost during editing! And the lab results were not in yet at the time of death! I do not poit a finger at her trainers for this, however her vet, directly should have put a priority on them! |
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Anon
Jun 19th, 2008 - 11:28 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
What happened with Hayln is a huge loss and has left a hole in many hearts. Mine included. You cannot blame her death on captivity. She would have died much sooner had no one stepped in. Sometimes, no matter what you do, or how hard you fight, you cannot save an animal. |
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Ladybug
Jun 19th, 2008 - 9:38 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Anon (or anyone) how do you know she would have died in the wild? How do you know her mother would have abandoned her if she was born in the wild? |
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Neveah
Jun 20th, 2008 - 12:55 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
"If they liked they trainers why do more human die beacuse of orca attack in captivity instead of the wild?" If you look at any wild/captive aggression ratio captive will ALWAYS be higher. Always. Its because in captivity the animals have more direct contact with humans, therefore more opportunities for aggression, attacks, and injuries to occur. Look at like this... How many people get harmed by pet dogs as compared to the number of people who get harmed by wolves or feral dogs? |
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sw regular
Jun 20th, 2008 - 10:57 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
"Anon (or anyone) how do you know she would have died in the wild? How do you know her mother would have abandoned her if she was born in the wild? " What, are you implying Kayla didn't want Halyn to endure the HORRIBLE life of living under human care? |
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Ladybug
Jun 20th, 2008 - 11:59 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
I wasn't implying that at all. Someone said the baby would have died out in the wild because the mother abandoned it. My question was... How do you know she would have abandoned it if it was born in the wild? I didn't know my question was so hard to understand. Let me know if you need any further help. |
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Grow Up Kids, Learn Something
Jun 20th, 2008 - 12:31 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
We can't know that. |
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Ladybug
Jun 20th, 2008 - 6:30 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Exactly. |
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paula
Jun 20th, 2008 - 6:42 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
this just goes to show that these animals were not meant for captivity. and it doesnt matter if they were bred there or not. they arent built for it, and it would take hundreds of years probably to produce a "domestic breed" which probably will never happen because they keep dying. whoever created them, whether it be God or another powerful force,clearly built them fit for the ocean, not captivity. |
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Grow Up Kids, Learn Something
Jun 21st, 2008 - 3:07 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Paula, this only proves one thing: babies die. They die out in the wild, they die in captivity. We all know the mortality rate of baby cetaceans is 50%. There are a variety of reasons why...none of them comforting. |
christian anthony perez
 Jun 22nd, 2008 - 6:03 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
your so ignorent! |
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corkylover
Jun 23rd, 2008 - 1:45 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
It is sad. This precious little girl dies...after all the trainers hard work to try to care for her, and all you guys can do is bash it. How shameful. Death is death, anywhere. |
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jjsjkdfsdjf
Jun 26th, 2008 - 1:36 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
It is true, all Russ Rector does is bash anyone who likes anything about captivity. From the whales, to the food they serve at their parks, it doesn't matter. He would gladly mock you and call you names for being open minded. Russ, if something dies, show some remorse. Stop banning people, and stop calling people your stupid made up word. You close minded *******. People, if you really want to help Lolita, don't come to this site and listen to opinions from this dick. Go to some other captivity site, because all you are ever going to hear from Russ is mockery of others, and NO chance of getting another opinion from him. I wonder how Russ will respond to me when I am banned? I can see it now. YEAH WELL U R TEH CAPTIVITY-O-PHILE LOLOLOLOLOLOL U LIKE 2 KIL TEH WALES SO THAR I BEET U!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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I like teh wales lulz
Jun 26th, 2008 - 1:40 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
It is true, all Russ Rector does is bash anyone who likes anything about captivity. From the whales, to the food they serve at their parks, it doesn't matter. He would gladly mock you and call you names for being open minded. Russ, if something dies, show some remorse. Stop banning people, and stop calling people your stupid made up word. You close minded *******. People, if you really want to help Lolita, don't come to this site and listen to opinions from this dick. Go to some other captivity site, because all you are ever going to hear from Russ is mockery of others, and NO chance of getting another opinion from him. I wonder how Russ will respond to me when I am banned? I can see it now. YEAH WELL U R TEH CAPTIVITY-O-PHILE LOLOLOLOLOLOL U LIKE 2 KIL TEH WALES SO THAR I BEET U!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Samantha
Jun 27th, 2008 - 3:10 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
I hate admiting this but sw regular is right Sea world did help Haylen by taking her under there care when the mother rejected her. BUT her mother shouldnt have been taken out of captivity because, maybe if she wasnt there and back where she came from ( and happier), she wouldnt have rejected her daughter. And not to mention Haylen would have gotten to see where Orcas really live. |
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Neveah
Jun 27th, 2008 - 10:38 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
'BUT her mother shouldnt have been taken out of captivity because, maybe if she wasnt there and back where she came from ( and happier), she wouldnt have rejected her daughter. And not to mention Haylen would have gotten to see where Orcas really live." If your saying what I think your saying...Kayla wasn't wild caught. She's a captive born. |
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sw regular
Jun 28th, 2008 - 9:33 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
"If your saying what I think your saying...Kayla wasn't wild caught. She's a captive born. " See, that's the thing. These people have to get through their heads that not EVERY SINGLE birth or death in captivity was an animal that came from the wild. Kayla was born in captivity, Qila was born in captivity, and so have the majority of captive cetacean parents these days. |
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Russ Rector
Jun 28th, 2008 - 11:44 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
was still a prisoner and died in captivity..get that through your head! |
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corkylover
Jun 28th, 2008 - 3:00 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
oh boy here he goes. She survived as long as she could. I'm sure a weak immune system got to her because she wasn't a very active animal. She didn't get what she needed. Kayla didn't know how to care for her, that's why she was rejected. Kayla was a captve born to begin with anyway. All captive born animals need to stay that way. Same with any animal in captivity for more than ten years. I'm not trying to start an arguement, that's just my opinion. |
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sw regular
Jun 28th, 2008 - 10:00 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
"was still a prisoner and died in captivity..get that through your head! " Mr. Rector, I have a question for you... How much do you know about the captive whales at SeaWorld? Please give an honest answer rather than just "prisoner". I'd like to hear your knowledge. |
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Russ Rector
Jun 29th, 2008 - 9:16 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
first swr how old are you? |
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sw regular
Jun 29th, 2008 - 10:03 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
If you must know, I'm 21 and in college, studying animal behavior. However just because I don't happen to work with cetaceans, doesn't mean I've done my research on the subject. And I've seen what you've done on other threads. You'll ask someone's informations (specifically whether they work with captive marine mammals or not) and then use or fantastic-sounding amount of "experience" you have against others to back up your statements of "you're wrong and I'm right." |
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Russ Rector
Jun 29th, 2008 - 10:21 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
you're just conjecturing...you have no practical experience. you wont even say who you are. im 60 and have about 40 years experience with dolphins..so who knows more? |
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corkylover
Jun 29th, 2008 - 12:32 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
If you must know Rector, some people don't like saying their name over the net because it gives away their identity. Don't be stupid. |
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Russ Rector
Jun 29th, 2008 - 12:35 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
CL YOU REMEMBER WHAT I TOLD YOU ABOUT CALLING ME RECTOR. AND LET PEOPLE SPEAK FOR THEMSEVES! |
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corkylover
Jun 29th, 2008 - 5:04 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Actually you never did tell me not to call you that. It's only your last name what's wrong with it??? Why can't you answer SW regular's question??? |
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Russ Rector
Jun 29th, 2008 - 5:31 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
FIRST I PERFER RUSS. SECOND MY KNOWLEDGE IS NOT IN QUESTION HERE! |
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Anon
Jun 29th, 2008 - 6:29 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Russ, I would think you would want to educate people on this subject. And you wonder why so few take you seriously? SW regular asked a question. I appreciate the fact that they are taking the time and energy to research something before making a decision on their opinion. |
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christian anthony perez
Jun 29th, 2008 - 6:46 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
^_^ |
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Bob
Jun 30th, 2008 - 8:44 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
"im 60 and have about 40 years experience with dolphins" And when was the last time you actually worked with a dolphin? 20 years ago? 30 years ago? The rest of the time you have talked a lot about dolphins...but you haven't worked with dolphins. |
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Russ Rector
Jun 30th, 2008 - 8:49 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
AND BOB OLD BOY YOU KNOW THIS HOW? AND BOB WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WORKED WITH DOLPHINS? OR EVEN SAW ONE? |
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Bob
Jun 30th, 2008 - 9:12 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
You didn't answer the question. When was the last time you worked with a dolphin? |
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Russ Rector
Jun 30th, 2008 - 9:21 AM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
I HAVNT DONE SHOWS IN YEARS BOB BUT IM AROUND DOLPHINS A LOT...AND YOU. AND BOB ITS MY BOARD I SUGGEST YOU ANSWER! |
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SW regular
Jul 2nd, 2008 - 3:13 PM |
Re: CAPTIVITY KILLS AGAIN
Actually Russ, to me your knowledge IS in question. You claim you know so much about these animals, yet mostly the only things I hear from you are twisted, extreme statements that are wrong. I asked you something; why do you refuse to answer? You always get annoyed when your questions aren't answered, don't you? So please, again: How much do you know (if anything) about the captive orcas at SeaWorld? Now, I'm not just talking about when they were captured, or if they're depressed or not (which they aren't), I'm talking about the hard facts of the present: What do you know about their personalities? Behavior? Role in the captive matriarchal pods? I remember you once said that Tillikum is a demented beast who "killed" someone because he wanted revenge. Care to clarify? |
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